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Sunday, Jan 20, 2008
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- Name: Millner
- Location:London
Originally from Muizenberg, South Africa.
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80 Comments:
Excellent work. Just want I was searching for. Thank you for making your knowledge free to all.
Your site is awesome. Mainly I've been downloading the Adler files. It would be great if there was some index-to-everything though (it's very hard to sort through the older uploads). Cheers from Australia.
Seumas
Hello Seumas,
Yes, the site still needs a lot of fine tuning. It is still very much a new born baby. Once I've finished recording all the Adler sessions, I'll go back and make indices for some of the subsections.
The site is in far too much flux at the moment for me to be able to do this. I'd be spending all my time re-writing my indices as I update and re-organise the site. Once things settle down, though, I'll do something about it. For the meantime, you'll have to persevere with the broad categories listed on the index on the introductory page.
Great site, I love the podcasts. Just one request: Please ID3 tag the mp3's, I'm doing it by hand at the moment and it's a PITA ;-)
Hello Anon. Re your PITA.
Yes, totally agreed. Some of the most recent files are ID3 tagged, the early ones are not. Steep learning curve, etc, etc.
I have to, I suppose, sit down and work out a standard naming protocol to apply across all future files I upload. I'm afraid the ones I uploaded previously will remain as is, unless I can find a way to edit the tags without deleting them and re-insalling them on the podcast. I only have one life:) and few enough hours in the day :) Sorry about your PITA.
I echo the other posters' sentiments when I state that I truly enjoy your podcasts. It's a brilliant show.
I think what I feel I am missing on it are transcripts and translations on occasion in the catalogue raisonné.
All blather aside, thanks for spreading knowledge for all on the net to enjoy in such an engaging manner, and teaching others a very critical language tool. Cheers and gratis :)
I agree with the information provided. This will really help in enhancing the knowledge base in the specified area.
Regards,
Komail Noori
Web Designing and SEO Expert
This is the best course I found on the internet. I use MP3 to learn a lot and don't try to catch anything while listening in the background. I listen to the course in the car and remember automatically, almost without effort. That's just how the brain works, I think, at least mine! You speak very clearly and pronounce very well - it's easy to follow, I just don't know why you chose such an old book from Adler. The other website that I found very useful is the Latin course for the virtual school of languages - they use a course based on the German Latin course "Cursus Novus Compactus" which is also quote nice, howver there are no MP3s. Anyway thank you for doing this.
SciencePit
(Dr. Peter Sajonz, New Jersey, USA)
Hello Peter. I'm pleased you're enjoying the podcast. You asked about Adler, and why I chose to use such an old textbook. This is a good question. Adler's book was revolutionary - although based on a long tradition of conversation-based "textbooks" from the Middle Ages, his was the first modern attempt to compose a textbook for teaching Latin as a living language.
His textbook may be old, but it is thorough, and will take the student through to an advanced level. A few other modern conversational Latin books have been written since - all of them heavily indebted to Adler, and none of them, to my knowledge, as thorough in covering the required ground. Adler aims to teach the Latin language in its entirety as a living language, he is not just playing around with a bit of conversational Latin.
Adler also has the distinct advantage of being academically rigorous. There is no dubious Latin to be found, his examples are firmly based on extant examples of the Latin spoken during the Golden and Silver Ages of the Latin language.
My name is Bob Patrick. I am a Latin teacher in the US, Atlanta, Georgia. I’ve just listened to the intro podcast from your site. I am thrilled at what you have put together. I am so delighted to hear what you have to say about the aural aspect of language acquisition, and the brain’s ability to acquire language. I am not, as you might imagine, a traditional Latin teacher, and have for most of my 18 years of Latin teaching, being exploring the many insights of language acquisition theories for use in the Latin classroom. So, we do quite a lot of Latin speaking in my classroom.
I am considering ways that I can have my students work with and use your site for next year. I think my students will love what you are collecting here!
Maximas gratias tibi!
Bob
Oops!
I mis-typed the URL The correct URL for my transcription of Adler is kwhitefoot.freepchost.com.
Ecce Romanus!
Mr.Millner, you have done what I hadn't the skill and time for of recent years..What a beautiful gift to the world of classics! And such a heart to share the wealth...I am an older(cough,cough) magistra trying hard to learn all the new bells and whistles of the computer world.
Your use of Adler is a true gift. Although my count of students already sent out into the world is at about 3,840, I dearly love these improvements on delivery and approach. Thank you for the giving heart to share such gold with us..I know my students will be delighted with such an addition to our courses.
From America, with great respect...
Augusta
Salve Mr. Milner,
I’m Andre Wemans, from Portugal and I have been learning Latin by myself with the help of sites like Textkit and the books of Lingua Latina. One problem of studying Latin without a teacher is, obviously, the pronounce, the speaking. Your podcast is a wonderful finding to help me in that aspect. Thank you.
Andre.
Hello Andre
Thank you for saying hello. I am pleased the site has been of help - one advantage of this podcast, is that you get to listen to several different people reading, each one using a slightly different accent of the Restored Classical Pronunciation.
Listening to these examples, along with your own research, interpretation and aesthetic instincts, will lead you to develop your own accent when you speak Latin, but you will be secure in knowing that what you end up with is based on examples that have a sound academic foundation.
Evan.
I just wanted to post my support for your efforts. I've been studying latin on my own. Sometimes, when I don't have the time or energy to memorize something, I'll just listen to one of the excellent readings you have posted. They keep me inspired. Thanks!
Mr. Millner!
I couldn't believe my luck...this is a treasure trove; as a language teacher, I marvel at the multitude of finds one meets along the way. Of particular interest to me is the ingenuous method of introducing the harder pieces before easy ones; its like playing the game before the rules are known; owning your first Latin experiences before anyone labels them. You should open a school or something, over the net...your knowledge and enthusiasm are so contagious-I keep telling people about this podcast, yet the response from jaded professional teachers is...lackluster at best-what do you know-they are all teachers, not students any more.
I would like to thank you for your Latinum podcast. I used it to prepare for a spoken Latin seminar I took a couple of weeks ago and I am continuing to use to to keep my Latin skills sharp.
Brent
Beautiful! Finally! I've been looking for something like this, thank you very much.
Pistolero
Evan,
I just wanted to mention again that I highly appreciate your site. Even though I may not fully agree with your learning methodology, it's great to hear Latin.
I often have this phrase stuck in my head, "Habesne tibi aliquit?" ;)
As a learner, I have some ideas: With the Adler recordings that I've downloaded, I am thinking of modifying your podcasts (by taking out periods of silence, speeding up the playback, etc). I hope you don't mind that I do this, but I would like to try it as I think it would be more effective for increasing my fluency, as in my speaking speed.
Additionally, I'm thinking of typing out the transcript of the recordings (both English and Latin) because Adler's book on PDF format can be a bit frustrating to follow. In fact, sometimes the pages aren't very clear for me.
I'd like to know your thoughts on this. Lastly, I'll be sure to let you know how it goes.
www.xanga.com/koreancatholic
-Jason
Hello Jason,
I've visited your website, and have read of your plan to become fluent in spoken Latin.
I hope your enthusiasm proves infectious.If more people follow your example, and take the goal of this Podcast seriously, that number will increase.
Feel free to snip bits out of the podcasts, and modify them as you wish, but in return, can you email me your adjusted mp3 files, so I can see if they can be posted on the podcast? Other users might find them useful.
You can email sound files to me on my gmail account:
evanmillner and that is at gmail.com
There is no one approach to learning any subject that works with everyone. I am trying to provide different approaches: Adler with the English/Latin, Dictation with Latin only, and the templates, with Latin only, but introducing new material based on the vocabulary introduced in the dictations.
Your speeded up and altered versions of the files would be a useful addition to the learning tools on offer.
Speed is an issue - the idea underlying the lessons here, is that you will be talking out loud. At the end of the day, I don't think there is much point in speaking Latin a lot faster than I do on the podcasts, as the number of people in the world who would be able to follow your conversation fully, if you spoke at full throttle, is comparatively small.
However, while learning, there are definite advantages to speed, as there is only so much time in a day.
I have actually been asked to slow down by some users, so there is no pleasing everyone!
I believe there is already someone trying to make an online transcript of Adler, which can be seen here:
kwhitefoot.freepchost.com
Oddly, Adler's German textbook is still in print as a facsimile, as is his German-English Dictionary. Perhaps someone should re-print the Latin textbook as well?
I agree the online Adler is a pain in the posterior, and hardcopies are as rare as hen's teeth.
-Evan.
Dear Mr. Millner!
I use your podcast heavily, as I spend 3hrs. on the road daily. Are you going to display more Latin Conversations on your podcast?
Are there more of these conversations somewhere else?
Thank You ever so much for your hard work to benefit us all!!!!!!
Emile
Thank you again for all the hard work!
Emile
excellent excellent excellent!
Thanks, thanks, thanks!
This is truly fine work indeed!
middle_english@hotmail.com
Hello Mr. Millner,
I would like to say "Great Job!" with what you have done here. I've been interested in learning Latin for a couple years now, and am glad to see a great resource for listening to Latin available on the web.
My one suggestion would be: would it be possible to group mp3's together into a single file and/or categories of files (i.e., *.zip files) for easier downloading? I find it takes longer to download and properly save a series of 30s to 1min files than to listen to them. If I could download them in one fell swoop, that would be great!
Thank again, and keep up the great work!
Richard
Austin, Texas, USA
Hi Evan,
I really appreciate your podcast. It definitely helped me prepare for a spoken Latin seminar I went to at the University of Washington in Seattle, Washington.
Most of the attendees were teachers and professors. There was also a classics graduate student who attended. There were two days of preparation sessions which consisted of about 6 hours of classes each day. Then 7 days of the conference with about 4 hours of classes and an outing each day. We went to places like museums, an aquarium, a zoo, parks, and on a hike in the mountains. It was really fun and I learned a lot.
I have taken less than two years of Latin but I was able to understand what was going on as well as the graduate student who has much more experience with Latin than I do.
I believe that was because I spent a lot of time listening to your Latin podcast and the graduate student's experience was only with reading Latin.
I really believe that listening and speaking are very important in learning a language.
Thanks,
B.
Google Books has recently changed the setting on Adler's online textbook, so that you can now download it as a pdf file to your computer, and print it up - though it is over 700 pages long.
Remember, "adler latin perpetual" are the magic search words to use on Google Books.
Hello Evan!
This my first really contact with Latin.
Once (upon the time) when I was younger, I saw some TV course but it was boring with plenty of grama and grama and grama... ;-)
One note: while I have iPod, firstly I found this your "service" between iTunes content in Podcasts section, but there are actually just last Horace odes nothing else. Where are the basics - the Introduction is the best. When I was hear your voice and explanation of Latin as "the program" I liked so much! (but may be because I'm IT high-tech guy).
Other thing: on iTunes we can find "WEBSITE" of yours but nowhere else in your files ((MP3) ID could this contain as well) - just an idea.
Ohh one more, what about your e-mail address please??
Thanks for everything! Kristian
Kristian,
Thank you, a couple of users have recently alerted me to the problem that iTunes seems not to allow all the episodes to be downloaded. This is a serious problem that needs to be fixed.
I have contacted mypodcast.com today regarding this problem.
I will include the url in every episode from now on, (and my email address, which is posted, but maybe not obviously) in a more clearly visible place with each episode.
Thank you for your useful comment.
Many thanks.
I've just started studying Latin using Peter Jones' QED book. It very useful to hear Latin spoken/read. I am also enjoying your expositions on grammar etc.
Bruce.
Hello Carolus,
Thanks for the useful note. Please use my email address evanmillner and that is at gmail.com for peer review.
Thanks .
Evan.
Say, would it be possible for there to be some sort of Latin conversation community? Something through AIM or another chat program, say, or folks making recordings.
I am in the process of making some changes to the site: namely, I am re-recording the Adler material, including more grammar in each session, but the focus remains on speaking and on conversational practice.
The main reason for the re-recording, is to tie the readings more closely into the textbook, as I have had many requests for this.
My proposal is to do as follows:
1. record each episode closely following the textbook, with grammar, some vocab, and then the model sentences in English-Latin, followed by Latin only.
2. Record a follow-on to each episode, with only the sentences, for revision purposes.
3. Time permitting, to record an associated dictation session, so you can write the material down as well, and further engrave the model sentences into your subconscious. This part three will not be a priority of mine,and I'll probably only get around to it after the whole textbook is complete. As I am doing this more systematically and completely than before, the progress through the textbook will take longer, but the end result will be a very thorough online course that will, if you follow it, make you fluent and give you total command of the language.
I will continue to upload further poems/readings, etc as they become available: Things to look forward to in the coming weeks - Pliny the Younger's letters, and more Catullus and Horace.
Evan,
Please accept more validation from one of those in the greatful masses:
I am working on my dissertation in historical theology, and, with my colleagues, have been banging my head onto latin textbooks and translations for three years, with frustration rising. I know I am good with languages, but latin has been giving me a run for my money precisely because of the situations you describe. In order to breathe along with the soul of the author of a text, one must experience his/her language through both the analytical and creative parts of the brain. I am tired of translating these texts - I want to READ! Some fellow sufferers said to me, "now you know what we feel like in the other languages." I said, "it does not have to be this way! I must find a way to speak it!" And thanks to Google to helping me find you, after only a month a find I have made more real progress in the language than I have in three years. My brain knows the grammar, now my soul is learning to breathe the language. THANK-YOU!
Adler is really quite a good text, and the pdf has made it painless. I look forward to the later chapters...
Many thanks,
Lisa
p.s. I am quite sure my textual interests will not make it onto your priority list, but I thought I would at least mention that I would love some recitation of early medieval texts, Augustine, Bede...
Hello Lisa,
I am pleased that Adler's (Ollendorff's ?) basic thesis is being proved correct, as indeed would he. It seemed like a monumental waste of effort for his brilliant book to be consigned to oblivion, which is why I'm resurrecting it here on this podcast.
I am actually quite interested in mediaeval Latin. The history of the City of London holds a particular fascination for me, and many of the records at the Guildhall Library are in Latin and Old French.
Regarding your query regarding mediaeval Latin on the podcast, this podcast is not limited to a particular time period. Just to Latin :) I've actually already asked a couple of mediaeval Latin experts to contribute audio files - for example, Magna Charta read aloud - but so far, I've not had any CD's of recordings arrive in the letterbox.
It is early days yet for this podcast, and I am sure that once the new academic year starts, interest will pick up, and I'll receive more contributions from people.
-Evan.
______________________
1. podcast
i.dissemino > dissemin > disseminuus (disseminated) ( forms analogously to contineo>contin>continuus)
ii. lobus (pod)
Hence Podcast:
> lobus disseminuus (the disseminated pod)
___________________________________________
Hi Evan:
The podcast website is superb; I can’t get enough of it now that I’ve discovered it. I’ve been hesitating about having an MP3 player, but now I’m going to get one just so that I can listen to the podcasts away from my office computer.
All the best,
John Voelker (Ph.D., Classics)
Minnesota, USA
With all the positive reviews, I cannot add a review yet having only listened to the first couple of tracks but I think this will be good for me. Any way you can upload transcripts of what you say so users (specifically me) can follow along to a printed word while listening?
Salve Evane,
Great job. It looks like you've taken on one of the labors of Hercules. I am glad you have decided to integrate the online Adler pensa with the text. Do you know of any other site where the book is available? Some of the scanning has resulted in unreadable pages on the Google site. This occurs right at the beginning of your conversational podcasts (pg. 8 or 9 in Adler).
Vale,
Atticus
I wrote to Google Books about the poor state of the online edition of Adler, and received the following reply:
Google Book Search Support
to me
Hello Evan,
Thank you for your email. I have noted the blurred and missing pages in this book, and have passed this information along to our technical specialists for review.
We appreciate your taking the time to write us, and encourage you to continue to let us know how we can improve Google Book Search.
Sincerely,
Jaclyn
The Google Book Search Team
__________________________________________
If more of the users of the online google books edition of Adler write to Google about the problem, the sooner it will be fixed:
How to do this: Go to Book Search.
Type in "adler latin perpetual" and open the page.
On the right hand side, there is a tiny image of the book, with "about this book" written under it. Click on this.
At the very very bottom of the page that opens, there is another link that says "provide feedback". Click on this, a page opens that lets you write your comments about the poor quality of the scan.
-Evan.
I must say that I am AMAZED at Latinum.I have to keep pinching myself because I am astounded at Latinum!
Rabbitt
Dear Mr. Millner, Please allow me to thank you for the great service you are
giving to all of us Latin lovers! I first studied Latin some 40 years ago
with a mixed-up pronunciation of classical and church Latin, so I am
enjoying hearing the restored pronunciation.
Just discovered you 2 days ago on i-Tunes. As an adult learner (51 y.o.doctor) I've long wanted to learn Latin but couldn't find the right way. I've tried to slog through Wheelock several times (usually I fall asleep). Your approach is brilliant. You've also made a gift of a wide number of recordings that I've been unsuccessfully to locate on the Internet. This immersion is great.
I've sacrificed a black bull in your honor and am planning an obelisk.
Gratias tibi ago,
Keith
Excellent work.
Just wanted to tell you and everybody else that there are other good books at google books(e.g. easy latin for sight reading) which are not available if you dont have US ip adress,so if you want to access them you could use US proxy
Vale
LDV
Where are the "First Latin Conversation" posts at? I would really like to hear those.
Hi,
As the site developed, I renamed things. The "First Latin Conversations" are now simply referred to as "Adler".
-Evan.
Hello Millner,
I've been visiting occasionally to your site and enjoying listening to the podcasts. I'm putting in a blurb about your site on my blog to help get the word out.
Thanks a lot!
Jeremy
ancientstudy.wordpress.com
Help! Google Book Search currently shows "no preview available" for Adler's textbook. Is it only me? Saturday 1 September, 02:36
No, Google Books appears to have taken Adler's Grammar off line, maybe because the scan was of such poor quality? I would advise contacting Google in the manner outlined above. In the meantime, I have the pdf, and this can be posted online, and a link to it published if someone has 30MB of space free somewhere. I tried to upload it yesterday, but my spare allocated space on btinteret's server is not large enough. I deleted a lot of things this morning, so I am going to try again. If I succeed, will publish links to the file.
This is awesome. I just started latin. Unfortunately, it is ecclesiastical latin so I fear I may get confused. I will try to keep it straight, tho. Any advice?
Thanks for this!!!!
saintwithasword at gmail dot com.
You'll be fine with both pronunciations. You might get a little confused now and again, but these problems will go away with use.
Many Jews manage this all the time, being able to speak modern Hebrew with one pronunciation, and read and pray using a totally different pronunciation.
http://latinteach.blogspot.com/2007/08/latinum-latin-language-learning-podcast.html
Review from Latinteach website:
Tuesday, August 14, 2007
Latinum - The Latin Language Learning Podcast from London
Want to become fluent in Latin? Evan Millner, who lives in London, has set up an amazing new website, Latinum, which hosts an online Latin course via podcast. Listeners can download free conversational Latin lessons -- recorded using the Restored Classical Pronunciation --to their MP3 players (such as an Ipod) and immerse themselves in the language.
The list of individuals and organizations who have contributed to the Latinum project is quite impressive and includes many respected scholars and institutions. To name only a few: Stephen Daitz, Robert Sonkowsky, Lorna Robinson, Cambridge University Press, the University of Canterbury (NZ), the University of Californa at Los Angeles, and Swarthmore College.
Topics in the Latinum Podcast archive include poetry, grammar, songs, jokes and readings, contemporary Latin, fluency practice, dictations and more.
What are you waiting for? It's time to get more fluent in Latin!
review from the Ancient Study Blog:
There is a really helpful resource, concentrating on spoken Latin, that just started several months ago. It is Latinum — The Latin Language Learning Podcast from London maintained by Millner. There are constant podcasts uploaded for learning Latin in other ways than just by reading and constant (sometimes mundane) memorization. One important emphasis I noticed is “language as an operating system.” Rather than being input oriented (e.g., reading, memorization) there is an emphasis on output — what you speak. In other words, verbalizing what you’re learning will increase your fluency of the language. So, in short, check it out for yourselves. I highly recommend Millner’s site to download podcasts for those wanting to take their Latin studies seriously or to another level.
http://ancientstudy.wordpress.com/2007/08/18/latin-podcasts-latinum/
Review from the edu2.0 website
http://www.edu20.org/reference/show/20551
Latinum:
The best way to become fluent in Latin. Lessons, readings, videos, and all sort of things that prove Latin is not as dead as some people wish to think. Subscribe to this sensational Podcast using Itunes or similar.
Review from Tutorialguide.com
Latin Language Tutorials
Latinum is a comprehensive podcast based website for the learning of Latin, aimed primarily at teaching the language in the same way as a living language might be taught, with an emphasis on speaking. There is material on the site suitable for students of all levels and abilities.
A person who learns the language this way, will have a grater natural facility, and will be able to read important classical texts in less time than the grammar-based route. The podcast also provides grammar and vocabulary lessons, for students who want a more technical base to their study of the language.
http://www.tutorialguide.net/spoken_languages/latin_language/
Review from Maine Classics Blog:
Latin on the Fly
August 31st, 2007 by admin
iPodWhy bother wasting time reading a book and studying when you can pop in the buds of your iPod and learn by listening? Podcasts are downloadable, episodic recordings on a huge variety of topics. There are several for learning Italian phrases to help you on your trip to Italy (worth showing to students before going to Italy), many NPR recordings, and, of course, one teaching Latin grammar, called Latinum. Click here for the iTunes link, or here for the regular browser link.
It’s actually more interesting than you’d think. The host Evan Millner uses the Adler text, available for free - because it’s so old - from Google here and a key here. Mr. Millner boasts almost 70,000 downloads since he started this service, with help from Cambridge University Press, Swarthmore College, UCLA, and Matt Dillon (no, not that Matt Dillon), the Classics Chair at Loyola Marymount University in LA, among many others.
The best thing about this podcast (and one of its aims) is to put spoken Latin out there in the public. Many of the podcasts recently are recitations of poetry and prose: Horace, Cicero, and Vergil. Latin was meant to be heard, and this site is worth a look if you do anything with these texts.
http://www.maineclassics.org/?p=139
From the Lingua Latina et Graeca: Resources page.
You may be, and if not should be, aware of Evan Millner's wonderful podcasts. Particularly, his Latinum podcasts for Latin. His Ancient Greek Podcasts also follow Kendrick (though he intends to include other materials also). Our Greek podcasts come from the same source, and so are quite similar, though you will find differences. I commend his to you as well as my own.
http://jeltzz.com/lingualatinaetgraeca.html
Also, a great many thanks to Lingua Latina et Graeca for hosting our copy of ADLER's textbook, since Google to thoughtfully took it offline. Go take a look at the website http://jeltzz.com/lingualatinaetgraeca.html - it complements the material on Latinum very well.
-Evan.
Adler is available on google books for download and now all pages are readable
Love the site! Wonder if anyone can help... I’m a British writer who loves Latin and I am bringing out a book in the US in November about Latin, called Carpe Diem - How to Become a Latin Lover. Have you got any idea how many people in America have done any Latin? And where are the great places to study? Prep schools? Catholic schools? Thanks so much.
Harry Mount (London)
I'm a shockingly bad linguist - I spent a couple of years trying to learn Greek in my spare time a while ago and eventually gave up - but I'm finding this extremely helpful. Your explanation of how ablatives are formed from accusatives really helped to breathe sense into the previously random-looking declension tables, and now I seem to have learned all the declensions incredibly quickly (far more quickly than from Peter Jones' QED book, which is otherwise very helpful too). This sort of explanation is very helpful indeed. I'm looking forward to working my way through the course! Thank you very much for making it available.
I don't know if this is covered later in the course, but I would find it helpful to have some vocabulary lists as well as grammar. I find vocab much harder to learn than grammar (this is one of the major things that defeated me with Greek). Perhaps there are Latin vocab lists elsewhere online; if so it might be helpful to have links to them.
I'm also very pleased to see that you have a Greek course too, although it looks like there's much less of it than the Latin. At some point I know I'll be taking Greek up again, so I'm hoping that by then you'll have more Greek podcasts available too!
Hello!
I am a Latin student from Portugal, and I the perspective of having aural contact with the language, rather than almost purely written, is amazing.
Your work is proving priceless. Thank you so much.
Regarding vocab lists - if you want one, you will have to compile your own vocab list as you work your way through the Adler text - although there is so much repetition in the course, you should be able to learn the vocab without making lists of words to memorise.
Greetings, Mr. Millner,
I discovered your Podcast only a few days ago. I have listened to the lessons 1a through 5b only and have been enjoying them very, very much. At first I had some minor issues with the id tags, etc, but I find this Podcast so _great_ and _helpful_ that I do not mind them at all.
Gratiam Tibi Ago, Magister Mi:)
Thanks for dropping by and saying hello.
You will notice that the id3 tag thing resolves itself later on in the podcast. I confess I didn't even know what one was when I started the podcast. I do intend to eventually re-post the earlier episodes, as I've rejigged all the id3's on my computer, but this is a time consuming thing to do, so first priority, is to get the thing recorded.
I'm pleased you're enjoying the podcast.I find it highly enjoyable to produce. I like the quirkiness of the Adler text.
This month the podcast passed its half millionth file download (560 000 ).....something I never expected to see.
Hi Millner,
This year I have decided to realize one of my big dreams, learn latin.
The first time I heard it was during a celebration of the Catholic church when I was a kid (something like 30 years ago) and since then I felt in love with the old roman language.
This year I found a grammar on a bookstore and started to learn. But, the speaking was something that I was a little concerned, because, as you said, "the roman are dead".
This podcast is so great. It's really good to be able to hear the language. I want to use it as a live language, as I am seeing that many want.
I'll make a post about latinum on my blog.
Parabéns pelo trabalho
Adilson Carvalho
Curitiba, Pr, Brazil
Hello,
If you have been a speaker of eccclesiastical Latin only, then it may take some time to get an ear for Restored Classical Latin. Personally, I listen to the various types of Latin, and can switch from one to the other with minimal difficulty. On the site, I am not the only reader - there is a wide selection of other readers of Restored Classical reading from a wide range of texts, to listen to - Sonkowsky, Diatz, Bond, Winge, etc etc. I listen to them regularly as well. They are all very similar. The main difference is the slight lilt in my accent as I am using the circumflex accent in spoken Latin, thus widening the tonal range, but this does not change much in the way of actual pronunciation. Restored Classical makes a major point of getting the vowel length correct. In Italianised Latin, as I understand it, vowel length is more or less irrelevant, and stress plays a major role.
I sympathise with you, as I had a similar difficulty the first time I encountered Modern Spoken Hebrew - I was taught using the old German pronunciation, saying shubbes, where Israelis say shabbat, as a case in point. It took some time to make the switch, now I can move back and forth between the pronunciations, and have added a third variant as well - Spanish and Portuguese pronunciation, where the b never becomes a v. so, Abraham, and not Avraham or Ovrohom. To untrained ears, the different pronunciations are unintelligible to one another. With Latin, they are much closer. Simply listening to Restored Classical with a text alongside would re-educate your ear to the different sounds.
I have had the readings on Latinum peer reviewed before release, so I am quite confident in the general quality of my spoken Latin. My initial recordings were often re-made a couple of times until I and my expert reviewer was satisfied.
The only major area of dispute that I acknowledge, is the pronunciation of cui. I have more recently opted to pronounce it in accord with its spelling in older Latin texts - quoi. Previously, I said it more like koi. Some say kee, and some others say kwee for this word. It is a minor point...being aware of the variants that exist for this particular word is what is important.
Hello, my name is Shendel and I'm from Brazil. I want to say thank you for the wonderful resource you have been providing here. I had one semester of Latin in college and I wasn't very thrilled about it in the beginning, but then I felt in love by the language. Now I am sorry we have only 2 semesters of Latin (one more to go). During this summer break here in the South Hemisphere I have been studying every day, and I also bought some great grammars and I'm using your podcast too of course. I love the readings. Not so much the ones made by the students of Swarthmore College, but I know I'm being a little picky. I don't like readings where the reader can't say the "Rs" trilled, it is a pet-peeves of mine. :) Anyway, thank you so much again!
I have a small problem. My latin dictionary says mihi / tibi are the dative cases for ego / tu respectively; so why are they being used in the nominative in your audio readings?
Example:
Estne Tibi Charta
Shouldn't it be:
Estne Tu Charta
Or is this some idiom i'm not aware of?
I'm not being critical (i'm new to latin), but this anomaly is at the back of my mind.
Maybe someone more experienced than me can clear this up?
Thanks
Robert.
I see you found the user forum.
That is a better place to ask questions of this type.
I also see you have received a satisfactory answer.
Adler does address this point in the grammar, but later on in the textbook.
Dear Mr. Millner.
I am troubled by the way you pronouce “hic, haec, hoc”. Why do you say hika, haika and hoka?
Even so, I consider your course the best I ever found, and I am grateful for it.
Best regards from
Fernando Andrade
Fernando,
This is a good question.
Vide Adler page 37.
This common pronoun has a peculiarity for, what in dictionaries (and grammars) are listed as “hīc”, “hōc”, really stands for /hĭcc/, /hŏcc/, with long consonant. (Historically, what happened was that the pronoun “hĭce”, neuter nominative “hŏcce” (from “hŏd”+“ce”), lost the trailing “e”, and the resulting /hŏcc/ in the neuter was spelled “hoc”. The consonantal length of “hoc” was then sometimes, but not always, borrowed by “hic”, which originally had a short “c”.)
Note that “hīc” and “hōc”, with long vowels, are the correct pronunciations of the adverb, ‘here’, and the pronoun in the ablative, respectively.
You can find the full discussion here:
http://web.comhem.se/alatius/latin/quantity.html
The form I am using in my conversational Latin on the podcast, however, is not hicc,etc, but the more familiar conversational form of hicce, haecce, hocce.
This is what you are hearing.
There is a point to be made, however, that when reading the classical authors aloud, one should probably be using hoc when they write hoc. In informal quoting of a text in spoken conversation, I think this is less of an issue. I like the sound of hocce, hicce, etc in spoken informal Latin.
Velius Longus says this " CUM DICIMUS HIC EST ILLE, UNUM C SCRIBIMUS, ET DUO AUDIMUS, QUOD APPARET IN METRO"
Priscian says similarly:
"UNDE HOC QUASI DUABUS CONSONANTIBUS CC SEQUENTIBUS SOLENT POETAE PRODUCERE...SED SCRIPTORUM NEGLIGENTIA PRAETERMISIT UNUM C"
Allen in 'Vox Latina' concludes that " Hic and Hoc should always be pronounced with short vowels, and when appearing before an initial vowel, it should be pronounced with a double c, and except where a poet treats hic as a light syllable in the old manner, this should be pronounced cc before vowels"
So, HOC OPUS comes out as HOC COPUS,
and HIC AIT as HIC CAIT, HIC EST as HIC CEST, et cetera.
-Evan.
I had never thought of Latin as a language that could be spoken, not really, I got interested when I heard a Billy Bragg song about England, then I researched early British history and now I can see where it comes from. Anyway, Im extremely fasinated with the podcasts and keep up the great work.
Feed your head,
Mark
Texas
Hi there. I wanted to say thank you for the Fancy French podcasts. I took french in public and high school, but never became fluent. It is something I always wanted to acquire, and I am glad you are hosting this podcast. I hope to keep you posted on my progress. Thanks Again!!!!
Cindy
I. D. Egregio et Erudito Dmno. Evano Millnero Salutem Plurimam!
Te qvaeso ut mihi permittas ut me viaa electronicaa tradam: I. D. me vocant; interpres Tribunalium Foederalium Civitatum Foederatrum Americae sum. Praecipue cum sermonibus hispanico et francogallico in tribunalibus laboro, sed et aliis lingvis loqvor. Abhinc multos annos lingvas classicas didici.
Etiamsi professio mea me cogit ut animum in lingvas modernas plerumqve intendam, lingvae latinae qvam diebus academicis didici numqvam omnino oblitus sum, tempus enim subsicivum invenire conor ut memoriam renovem et notitiam meam graecae et latinae lingvarum augeam.
Qva de causa cursum tum lingvae latinae in interreti hodie magno cum gaudio inveni atqve primas lectiones auscultavi et utiles et iucundas inveni. Bravo! (Eugepai?). Mihi valde placet hoc inceptum. Enuntiatio tua sermonis Latini valde clara et aesthetice valde amoena est. Theoria cursus et cursus ipse praeclari sunt. Semper credidi lingvas latinam et graecam disci oportere tamqvam lingvae essent vivae.
Sed te rogo ut mihi veniam des si tecum de certa re dissentio: Mihi multo magis placet modus tuus sermonis Romanorum pronuntiandi qvam modus Professoris X qui meaa quidem sententiaa nasalitatem vocalium extremarum verborum nimis ampliat, adeo ut sonus lingvae non naturalis videatur - sonitus enim oritur magis qvam sonus!
Duabis enim lingvis modernis loqvor - francogallicaa et portugallicaa (et tertiam, polonicam, nunc disco) - qvarum phonologiae vocalibus nasalibus certe praeditae sunt, sed nullum adhuc locutorem inveni nativum qvi vocales nasales qvae horum sermonum popriae sunt modo tam immodico enuntiet. Talis gradus nasalitatis, id est, gradus nasalitatis qvem efficit Dnus. ........X......, in lingvis Indo-Europaeis deest. Tu nasalitatem vocalis extremae subtiliter reddis, qvam ob rem tibi gratulor.
Dominus ......X..... autem "misses the forest for the trees" qvippe qvi discrimen qvod sine dubio inter vocales longas et breves existit simili modo nimis ampliat, adeo ut rhythmum sententiae modo parum leni asseqvatur. Sententia ipsa rhythmum proprium habet, qvi rhythmus est observandus etsi necessarium evenit discrimen inter vocales breves et longas modo laxiore observare. Analogum enim phaenomenon in lingva sinensi occurrit: Sunt qvattuor toni, et unumqvidqve vocabulum tonum (aut tonos) proprium habet. Verum cum vocabula in sententiis conjunguntur, ea verba qvae minoris momenti semantici sint tonum suum aut extenuant aut omnino perdunt.
Spero fore ut in incepto laudabili tuo pergas!
I. D.
I have recently decided to start learning Latin again, after a hiatus of several years, which was caused, I believe, by the lack of a body of recorded spoken Latin. I have just found your podcast and I consider it a godsend. Thank you so much.
Like another recent poster, I was put off initially by the apparent lack of a useful index page of the recordings. On investigation, however, I found that it was possible to browse the languages folder of your site here:
http://www.e.millner.btinternet.co.uk/languages/
From there I found this page --
http://www.e.millner.btinternet.co.uk/languages/Latin.html
-- which appears to contain a thorough progressive index to the Adler lessons. That page does not appear to be linked to from your podcast page; I would suggest doing that if it isn't very out of date.
The podcast hosting service that you use clearly serves its purpose very well for people who are already up to date with your existing podcasts and just want to catch up on the latest, or who know which particular podcast they want to listen to; but the same service is clearly limited in its ability to allow structuring of material in any order other than the one in which it was uploaded. Equally, the task of regularly updating a static web page (like your Latin.html page) to keep track of your dynamic collection of recordings must be an onerous one. Might I suggest the use of a wiki? Not only would that allow dynamic editing very easily, but it would also (if you so chose) allow subscribers of your podcasts to edit the index themselves, as new recordings became available, thus relieving you of some of the maintenance work.
Thank you and kind regards,
The Octagon
Hello Octagon.
Thank you for taking the time to comment on the podcast. I'm pleased it has helped you pick up your Latin studies again. Every day there are around 5 000 audio file downloads from the site, I am not sure how many users there are in total, but certainly over 2 000.
I used to keep an index to the site on btinternet, but this simply took too much time to administer, so I abandoned it.
Instead, I have come up with the index system which you will find on the right hand side of the main Latinum webpage:
http://latinum.mypodcast.com
From here it is a simple matter to keep up to date with the podcast, especially the all important Adler lessons, as clicking on one of these links will open the archive page. All the files are ordered sequentially, spaced 5 minutes apart, so it is easy to keep track of what came first - apart from the filenames themselves, which are also ordered sequentially.
I am very happy with this particular index, but there is absolutely nothing to stop a user with time on their hands making an index to the site, and posting it on a wiki, or elsewhere on the net, as you suggest.
I am afraid my time is limited,there is only one of me, and Latinum isn't a project intended to make money, it is a labour of love, as the saying has it - and the time it takes to simply prepare an episode for recording, checking the words for quantity, etc, and then uploading the files to the site, takes up all the spare time I have.
Users will have to put up with the inconvenience of my basic index on the main page.
Evan.
Octagon,
One thing - Latinum is indeed uploaded like a simple blog, but I can then move the files around at will.
I move the files around after I upload them, so that they are arranged in categories, according to the index I have made, which is on the right hand side of the home page.
I fail to understand why you cannot find the files you are looking for, as the index on the right of the home page allows full access to all the files, in sequential order. True, the first few files on the home page look out of place sometimes, this is simply because I have been uploading, and have not yet refiled the uploads to their correct locations on the site.
You cannot tell when I uploaded a file from its apparent date.
Thank you, thank you. I've been looking for something like this for *years* -- now I can use the time spent driving to and from work for something productive!
With a bit of fiddling, I've got Adler's textbook on my Ipod Touch so I can listen and read at the same time (not in the car, obviously!) I've also cut and pasted some of the exercises into the 'lyrics' feature of the Touch, so that they can be easily displayed whilst listening.
I'm still a bit fuzzy regarding which order to be using the resources in -- there's an obvious progression through Adler, but which (and when) of the other resources should I be listening to?
I'm also not quite sure whether I should be spending a lot of time with each lesson, completely understanding it, before progressing to the next... At the moment, I play each lesson 3 or 4 times in succession (so it's taken me two weeks to get to lesson 6) but I do understand about 80% of it. There's always a conflict between the desire to press on and learn new things, and to consolidate what you've already learnt.
Again, thank you so much for giving up your time.
Salve Marce,
Language acquisition is not really a linear affair. It is really up to you how fast you go through. What is important is constant review of what you have already learned. At the end of each chuck ten episodes or so there is a special review episode, in Latin only.
Vocabulary learning can be attacked at any time. Getting a wide vocabulary is important, and one of the hardest things to do in language learning. You will also find learning Latin vocabulary will enrich your English tremendously. Listening to the vocabulary learning audio files over and over is quite a quick way of learning new words. There is no order to learning this material.
The other material on the podcast can be dipped into and out of at will. Latin poetry is good to listen to, even a long time before you even begin to understand it, so that you get to grips with the thorny difficulties of prosody and the peculiar rhythms of Latin poetry. Even where you don't understand a piece of Classical Latin fully, or even at all, you are still learning grammatical patterns. Eventually, you will understand more and more.
The most important thing is not to get stressed. This is counter-productive. Simply make a programme and stick to it. Don't worry about making choices, stick to the Adler, and every now and again, learn some vocab and listen to some of the poetry.
Even if you run ahead too far, you can always go back and consolidate. Indeed, one needs to know the Adler material almost intuitively, if one is going to be able to speak the language. That means a lot of listening. From what you say, you are making good progress.
Mr. Milner,
What magnum opus! You have revived Latin.
Finding links and decent website for learning the language of dead Romans is a Herculean task. I live in San Francisco CA. I have been my own teacher since 2004. Latin is probably the 6th language I have come to study. My mother tongue is Persian, the second is Arabic, the third was English, fourth was German, fifth came to be French and now the sixth is Latin. My son is also learning it at high school. His school teaches Latin from Wheelock! It's frightening to learn from this book. You have provided an innovative way to learn the 'tongue' and that's precisely the way to learn a language, not memorizing from a book without knowing the accents and differences between the vowls! Teaching Latin in US schools looks like a nightmare. You must take your work seriously and think about producing your podcasts as a collection of DVD or a website to download at a price. That's the only way you could enhance it with continuous addendum.
Go find someone from in the business of online curriculum media production and present your fabulous idea into reality. You have a grand idea here, a diamond in the rough, but you need to polish it. While you do this you will see it shine through. (suggestion for online curriculum media producer: thinkwell.com)
Thank you and all the best.
Vale,
Maryam
In lesson XIX B "esurit" in incorrectly translated as "he thirsts."
Keep up the good work!
If you are referring to:
Ex. 22
Quis esurit?
Answer being: Nemo esurit, sed amicus vicini nostri somniculosus est (pg 19 in the Key)
This is translated as: Who is thirsty? in Adler's textbook on page 84. Indeed, this appears to be an erratum in the Key, it should be hungry. It looks like both Adler and I were asleep. Will look at the file and make the correction. Thanks for pointing this out.
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